Southern Baptist In NC

April 18, 2008

Racism: A double-edged knife

Filed under: Dr. Dwight McKissic, Dr. Paige Patterson, Executive Committee, Racism, SWBTS — Tim Rogers @ 8;16 am

One thing that happened to me when I received Christ at twenty-nine years of age was my attitude toward people of various ethnic background changed. I was extremely racist in my attitudes and thoughts and I realized a love for people of opposite skin color that I never knew existed.

There was one item that caused me considerable floundering on my racist attitude and that was the racist attitude I experienced from people of the opposite race. I did have some friends that were African American before I got saved and all I heard them speak about was getting a ‘white girl’. I saw in military service the attitudes from some African American soldiers that African American girls were not even on their radar screens. They wanted only to be with ‘white’ girls. When I got saved this was an area that God had to deal with me on and I still find myself asking forgiveness for various thoughts that come into my mind.

However, I also believe that racism is as much alive within the African American community as it is in the Anglo community. It seems that some argue that African Americans cannot be racist because to be racist you have to be in a majority and African Americans are not in a majority. I am not sure how one would define racism but I believe I will use the definition found in Websters: “a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race.

According to this definition, it seems that Senator Obama received a pass on his recent racial slur. Notice what he says about his grandmother who is Anglo.

The point I was making was not that my grandmother harbors any racial animosity,” he said. But she is a typical white person. If she sees somebody on the street that she doesn’t know. . .there’s a reaction in her that doesn’t go away and it comes out in the wrong way.

Notice that Senator Obama fell into the classic definition of exhibiting a racial attitude. He believes, according to his statement, that because his grandmother is ‘white’ she displays certain traits that make here inferior to him. The Senator got a pass from the media on this and it seems that he has dodged this statement because I had to look to find it in a Google search.

What does that have to do with me as a Southern Baptist. It seems that Southern Baptist have taken a negative hit on racism in some of the post on the blog world. My friend and fellow blogger Bart Barber had some hurtful comments directed his way when he honestly said ‘Yes’ to the question; “Does racism exist in the SBC.” I am not one to place words in another’s mouth but what I understood Dr. Barber to say was that we all had racists thoughts to some extent. If an African American jokes that someone cannot sing or dance because they are white, then that is a racists statement. I am not offended by the statement, because I know I cannot sing or dance. I do not know if it is because I am white, but I know it just is not in me. However, after watching Dancing with the Stars, I must admit there are some dancing white boys on that program. :) I say that comical statement to point to you that the statement itself can be perceived as racist.

As we can go back and forth with the various racist statements that really are not offensive, I must confess that in Southern Baptist life I do see a place we can improve and make certain that our actions match our words. Brother Dwight McKissic pointed something out about his visit to the Executive Committee in Nashville. The highest ranking African American employed at the Executive Committee is the Head Custodian. According to the Richard Cliff at LifeWay we have 823,208 African American; 185,223 Hispanic; 75,937 Korean; and 23,743 Chinese members of our 16 million members. That means that the SBC is made up of 20% minority church members. I must admit that when I saw these numbers I was a bit embarrased that the highest ranking African American at the Executive Committee was the Head Custodian, when African Americans make up the largest minority population in the SBC.

I believe it is time for us to call on our convention leaders, in some way without developing a quota system, to bring balance to this discrepancy. Do I believe we have this imbalance because of racism? No, I do not. We all know how people get positions and it is mainly due to relationships formed in Seminary. Our seminaries have attracted mainly Anglo students. Our convention must take some blame for this. This resolution passed in 1995 certainly has not helped to recruit students to our six seminaries. I believe this correction can begin in our seminaries, in the recruitment of minority seminary students. According to this press release it seems that SWBTS is getting it. But, it must not stop there. I believe that our committees and entity heads must be open to moving minorities into various positions of leadership. I pray that as we move forward, we as a convention, will grasp that minority relations is more than just words presented at an annual meeting in the form of a resolution. We are Brothers and Sisters in Christ and we should trust the Christ living in all of those who profess Him.

19 Comments »

  1. Tim, was one of your numbers misprinted? I add them up and get 1,108,111 minorities, which would be under 10%.

    Your point is a good one, though. And if you read my blog a couple weeks ago, you know my experience was similar to yours, relative to my conversion.

    It was a certain German man’s prejudice against one race that produced the holocaust.

    Comment by Bob Cleveland — April 18, 2008 @ 8;52 am

  2. Brother Bob,

    You are correct. I will have to double check my figures. I took the % from someone else without adding the numbers. Thanks for the catch.

    After I posted I someone told me that Golden Gate Seminary elected a African American as Chairman of their BoT. Praise God for that. I also found out that the person heading up one of GGBTS’s campuses is also a minority. Thus, we do seem to be headed in the right direction.

    Blessings,
    Tim

    Comment by Tim Rogers — April 18, 2008 @ 9;31 am

  3. Tim,

    Let me first say I appreciate your willingness to post on race. Most of the SBC bloggers have failed to really address this issue and that is sad. There have been a few post about race, but none that emphasize reconciliation in a real way.

    Yes, racism is a two-way street. But it’s not that easy. What I find are many Anglos who have no African-American friends. Anglos are naturally quick to be dismissive without having the personal connection or conversation with an African-American. What’s happening now in our culture is Anglos are busting out African-Americans for the double standard in a few areas related to race. What African-Americans won’t do is let it be that easy. It’s not a cut and dry or cut and run issue. Racial reconciliation requires, and even demands a process.

    The SBC has missed the process. It’s in part because Anglos don’t know how to have a discussion on race. It’s part “dismissive-ness” and part they don’t want to mess up and be labeled racist. The common thread is real repentance on our part. If the SBC repented, then where’s the fruit? There is some fruit. But this issue is too important to not keep “fresh fruit.” We need Blacks at the top level. Can you image what kind of press conference you could have if Whites and Blacks came together and said, “No more…not on my watch”?

    I’ve found when Anglos prove themselves genuine and trustworthy (and without trust there is no racial reconciliation = witness) African-Americans are a lot more apt to engage our viewpoints.

    This is not easy “my friend.” That’s why the bloggers don’t mess with it. What do you think?

    Comment by Alan Stoddard — April 18, 2008 @ 10;42 am

  4. Brother Alan,

    Thanks for your comments on this subject. I want to first say that I am sorry that I placed this post up when I did. The reason for my sorrow has nothing to do with the post but the time required of me to address this with others like yourself. I have a funeral that I am getting ready for tomorrow and also we have Operation In As Much going on tomorrow with a huge block party here at the church, so my time is required else where for the next 24 hours.

    Having said that, let me address some of what you have brought out. It is not easy to address race equality within the SBC. First, you are forced to deal with your own personal feelings. I will be the first to tell you that I am not where I need to be as I constantly catch some attitudes coming to the surface that should not be there. Second, I have to address buzz words that mean different things to different people. For example the term Affirmative Action. For me I hear quotas. For someone else they hear a place at the table. Another term that causes me concern is empowerment. For me I hear taking away my right to say anything in disagreement, for someone else they hear having their voice finally being heard.

    Your statement: Can you image what kind of press conference you could have if Whites and Blacks came together and said, “No more…not on my watch”? I know what you are saying. However, let us agree to treat everyone, regardless of skin color, as we would like to be treated regardless of the press coverage.

    Blessings,
    Tim

    Comment by Tim Rogers — April 18, 2008 @ 11;43 am

  5. Yeah, I agree. The reason there has to be a coming together component is that it is biblical. John 17:21 says, “…that they all may be one as you father are in me and I in you; that they also may be one in us, THAT THE WORLD may believe that you sent me.”

    We must have unity to witness to the world. That means things we have tried that come from the world, don’t work for where we need to go.

    Comment by Alan Stoddard — April 18, 2008 @ 12;51 pm

  6. Tim

    Great post

    Jim

    Comment by Jim Champion — April 18, 2008 @ 1;40 pm

  7. Bro. Tim:

    Great Post! I thought to myself as I read this post, here is a brother - White brother - who “got it.” By that I mean one who is willing to acknowledge that there is a discrepancy or problem and we should prayerfully, carefully but intentionally initiate a process to correct the problem without creating additional problems.

    We have seen some progress in recent years involving racial inclusion, equality and empowerment in the SBC.

    Dr. E.W. McCall, a retired African American pastor from California who preached for me this past Sunday is Chairman of the Board of Trustees at GGBS. I’ve been told by someone (can’t remember whom) that the head of the L.A. campus of GGBC is also an African American. Praise God for the Left Coast :)

    I’m no mathematician or statistician but if you add up the percentages associated with each ethnic group listed below it does come out to be that 20% of the SBC are minorities. However, it may be that I’m not interpreting correctly or understanding if the percentages stated are percentages of the SBC total membership.

    PER RICHARD CLIFF AT LIFEWAY

    TOTAL SOUTHERN BAPTISTS AS OF 2006- The last official count

    44, 223 CHURCHES
    5, 241 MISSIONS
    16,306,246 MEMBERS

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    AFRICAN AMERICAN

    2,416 CHURCHES 5.463%
    684 MISSIONS 1.305%
    823, 208 –MEMBERS 5.048%

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    HISPANIC

    1,307 CHURCHES 2.955%
    1,665 MISSIONS 3.147%
    185, 223 MEMBERS 11.359%

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    KOREANS

    583- CHURCHES 1.318%
    227 MISSIONS 4.331%
    75,937 MEMBERS 4.656%

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    CHINESE

    137 CHURCHES .003%
    71 MISSIONS 1.354%
    26, 743 MEMBERS 1.640%

    Comment by Dwight McKissic — April 18, 2008 @ 1;42 pm

  8. Brother Tim,

    Thanks for the post. I normally do not post comments but felt compelled regarding Lyn’s post above. I believe in a society where freedom of expression is celebrated and useful - but his words are simply “stupid” and born out of a tradition that is unfortunately still exercised as a way of life throughout the world.

    Lyn,

    Your comment is out of line. It would be easy to hope and wish for a society where we can decide who stays and goes - anyone who definitely doesn’t fit our idea of what a human should be. But, guess what, you don’t have that distinction and choice. Only a true creator who created ALL humans unique and special so we have the opportunity to serve him amongst our fellow brothers and sisters.

    You , sir, are the problem in the equation - not the answer! I pray God would open your eyes to what he truly wants and purposes for your life.

    God Bless, Sam.

    Comment by Sam Williams — April 18, 2008 @ 3;37 pm

  9. Lyn,

    I am having trouble understanding what you have said. If I read your correctly, you are essentially saying black people are not people worthy of your care and concern as a created being that God loves and longs to know. I don’t know what Bible you read or what brand of Christianity you follow, but the only Bible I am aware of teaches that all people are created by God, that He loves all people, that we are to love Him will every inch of our being, and we are to love all people as we love ourselves. That means we love black, yellow, brown, white, etc. as PEOPLE, not colors. God does not see color, especially when He looks at Christians, He sees CHRIST!

    Now, I see a problem as a lost PERSON, regardless of color, that we need to share the gospel with so that they too can know Christ and be in fellowship with Christ and their Christian brethren. When they come to know Christ, they get to move away from the edge of the lake of fire, and go instead to a place before the throne worshipping the God who created them and made a way for them to come to Him. He did not qualify any of that by race, He loved the WORLD and did this for the WORLD.

    Please Lyn, please rethink your words and your feelings on this subject. If you claim to be a Christian, then you are claiming to be a follower of Christ who has been saved by His blood on the cross. This means that you are claiming to love Him, worship Him, and obey Him, because a true follower of His will do this and they will do it willingly and joyfully out of love for their Lord and Savior who rescued them from eternal hell and damnation. This Lord and Savior is Lord and Savior of all PEOPLE, all colors, all nations, all tribes, etc.

    Praise be to Him who loves without seeing anything but a heart that has been turned towards Him and seeks to love, worship, and serve Him with their lives, who doesn’t see the wickedness that we still struggle with each day as we deal with the fleshly bodies we are still left to live in after our hearts have been changed by a miracle of the Holy Spirit when we came to faith and recognized our sinfulness and our need for a Savior.

    Blessings,
    Trish

    Comment by Trish — April 18, 2008 @ 3;44 pm

  10. hey yall,

    if you click on lyn’s name, you go to his blog. he’s a kkk type white supremacist. that’s where’s he’s coming from.

    lyn, turn from this sin of hatred and anger. turn to Jesus. put your faith in Christ, and in Christ alone to save your soul. your white skin wont take you to heaven. your “good works” wont get you into heaven. you can only get to heaven by the grace of God. lyn, i’m a white man from the south. i’m telling you that black people are just as much a person as you or i. black people are valued and loved by the Lord as much as the whitest fella in alabama. lyn, even though some black people may have hurt you in some way in the past…dont put them all in the same basket. they are people…just like you and me are people. some of them act bad. some of them act good. some of them do bad things. so do white people. lyn, you need to let the Lord take this hate and anger towards black folks out of your heart. will you?

    david

    Comment by volfan007 — April 18, 2008 @ 6;32 pm

  11. Vol,

    I did as you suggested I read Lyn’s blog. I had determined to leave this post alone, but now..well.

    Lyn is a stupid man. He says Black people get away with their crimes. Lyn, you moron, most all criminals get away with their crimes.

    He spoke of two Black men who had been “tough guys” crying the night before they lost their lives at Atmore. In making an issue of their crying Lyn reveals he has no experience with men in the moments before they meet a hard death if they know it is coming. Most all cry, among other things. Real death is not TV, Lyn, you moron.

    Vol, due to the nature of Lyn’s hatred he may feel he has certain “skills.” Maybe he will run into some old white man someday who will present to him the fact that he has no real “skills” at all, because, Vol, not every old white man in Alabama is plain white trash with a big mouth, like Lyn.

    cb

    Comment by cb scott — April 18, 2008 @ 8;12 pm

  12. Now to you Lyn,

    You said; “I don’t think Blacks are Christians anyway.”

    Lyn, not only are you stupid and a moron piece of white trash. You are worse. You are a stupid, moronic, LYING, piece of white trash.

    Let me say I know many Black Christians. Let me say all the Christians of any race who comment and post on these blogs are decent, kind, gracious and very “civilized” people.

    Now, let me say there is one Christian who regularly post and comments on these blogs who is not…”civilized.” Maybe someday he will have the opportunity to buy you a cup of coffee and talk over these things and maybe the two of you can come to an understanding. But, if he offers you a piece of his homemade huckleberry pie, let me warn you, don’t..take it. His huckleberry pie is hard to handle. He is not a civilized Christian.

    cb

    Comment by cb scott — April 18, 2008 @ 8;30 pm

  13. Lyn,

    I just arrived home after doing ministry today. It seems that you have certainly been taken to task on your outlandish view. While you have the freedom of speech I have the freedom of protecting my area of blog land from the likes of someone like you. I have removed your comment and you will no longer be able to comment here until you publicly recant your position you have espoused and apologize to all of our African American Brothers and Sisters.

    Allow me to tell you why I am repulsed by your statements. That was me before Jesus set me free from the chains of hatred. Jesus can set you free from your sin. You can repent of this sin and Jesus will invade your life.

    Blessings,
    Tim

    Comment by Tim Rogers — April 18, 2008 @ 9;27 pm

  14. To All,

    I would like to take this opportunity to ask your forgiveness for the comments some have seen. I am sorry that you had to endure those comments. To my African American Brothers and Sisters, please accept my apology. This was not something that I saw coming and I was out today away from the computer. When I came in and checked the comments here I was appalled at the comments that I saw. Please pray for Lyn, as it is apparent that he is lost and needs Jesus as his Savior.

    Blessings,
    Tim

    Comment by Tim Rogers — April 18, 2008 @ 9;40 pm

  15. Tim,

    I need to apologize to you and especially Trish. She is a fine woman and I am ashamed that I let that guy’s statement draw out the dark side of my soul in her presence. Karen will probably hit me with my key board when she reads what I said.

    Every time I think I have the thing under control something like this happens and I get the old hunger to fight. I really want to be a civilized Christian but that kind of rude behavior is really hard for me not to challenge.

    Let me say to all of you that I am sorry for my own rude behavior which is actually worse because I do know better. Dwight, I am sorry you saw that and Trish, I am especially sorry for you seeing that kind of thing.

    Lyn, I need to say I apologize and I am asking God to help me to mean it. I was wrong.

    cb

    Comment by cb scott — April 18, 2008 @ 10;43 pm

  16. Tim,

    Thank you for the way you handled this and let’s pray that God is at work in Lyn because of what happened here. Remember to look at this as a chance to witness and change a life, to get him away from the lake and standing around the throne, worshipping our wonderful Savior.

    CB,

    Apology accepted, you were a little rough. But, like my praise says at the end of my post, God sees His son when He looks at you, He knows we battle the flesh. I am glad He showed you where the flesh won last night, that you heard the Holy Spirit convict you of this and you publically repented of you actions. You do this far more than anyone else on the blogs and I praise the Lord for you because you desire to obey God and give Him glory with your life, even if it means humbling yourself before the world. You are an example to me and I pray to many others, about what true Christian behavior looks like. It is true that we battle the flesh and we will lose that battle many times. But, we only need to remember that Jesus has already won the ultimate battle, and repent of our losses when they happen.

    Lyn,

    I pray you are coming back to read these words, hear our hearts, and see the heart of Christ for you. I pray you are broken by your sin and how much you are loved by the Lord Jesus Christ anyway, that you repent and trust Him for your salvation, that you start a new life today, living to give praise and glory and honor to the One who created you and saved you from an eternity in the lake of fire, living to share the real Jesus and how He changed your life and removed the hate from your heart, how He taught you how to forgive by forgiving all that you had done. Please Lyn, contact Tim or CB or Dwight, let them explain the love of Jesus to you personally and get them to help you started living your new life in Christ. I know they would be more than happy to talk with you and help you. God Bless You.

    Trish

    Comment by Trish — April 19, 2008 @ 8;38 am

  17. Tim,

    I would put the comment by Lyn back up for everyone to see. You are not espousing his position by doing so. Regardless, I’ll respect it.

    I’m glad ya’ll nuked this guy. He’s a sin-sick person who was not wise enough to zip it.

    Lyn, I do hope you will repent. We will be first to forgive, but you must repent. If you don’t see it as sin, I wonder about your salvation. I didn’t say you weren’t saved. I said, “wonder.” Eternity is too long to be wrong.” Hell is too hot to be wrong too.

    I’m proud to see ya’ll Southern Baptists thump this guys racism…In Jesus Name!

    Comment by Alan Stoddard — April 19, 2008 @ 1;30 pm

  18. Tim,

    I think that you hit the nail on the head with regard to the seminary experience. Whether it ought to be or simply is, seminary relationships shape the future direction of the SBC.

    Comment by Bart Barber — April 19, 2008 @ 8;15 pm

  19. BTW, I find within me a morbid curiosity to know what Lyn said. Probably best to leave it down. Morbid curiosity is not generally a good thing.

    Comment by Bart Barber — April 19, 2008 @ 8;20 pm

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