SBC Presidential Nominations
I remember years when I went to the convention and never used my ballot for anything but to raise it in a voice of acclamation for the one person who was nominated for the office of President of the SBC. Well, it looks as if those days are over. We already know of three people that have been announced as candidates for the position. Frank Cox, as I have already stated, is the person that will receive my vote when that opportunity arises. Frank Cox, Bill Waggoner, and Wiley Drake are the three names already being announced as nominees.
According to this news release we now have Avery Willis allowing his name to be entered. Also, I understand that Johnny Hunt of First Baptist Woodstock announced Sunday evening to his church that he was considering allowing his name to be entered also. Go to this video link at around the 7 minute mark and here Brother Johnny’s heart concerning our convention.
It seems that we are in for an interesting year at Indy.
I’ve had a couple friends come up through FBC Woodstock. So I checked out the sermon.
What was most disturbing and I say this honestly was the 4 babies they Baptized right before the sermon began. The last two kids were especially small. There’s no difference between sprinklin a little baby and immersing a 3-4 year old whose father claims had a “divine encounter.” Neither instance is a case of believers baptism.
Comment by Big Daddy Weave — May 6, 2008 @ 12;15 pm
Brother BDW,
This post has nothing to do with your disturbance. Thanks for raising the issue, but I believe that concern should be raised with your ‘friends’.
Blessings,
Tim
Comment by Tim Rogers — May 6, 2008 @ 1;07 pm
Tim,
YOU posted the link.
Now your readers will know that slightly after Brother Johnny shares his heart about the Convention, a few preschoolers are baptized.
Comment by Big Daddy Weave — May 6, 2008 @ 1;31 pm
Tim are you entering?
Comment by jamie steele — May 6, 2008 @ 2;20 pm
Also Big Daddy. You sound like the Holy Spirit making all those salvations predictions.
Comment by jamie steele — May 6, 2008 @ 2;22 pm
I haven’t made any predictions about salvation.
As a Baptist, I’m a firm believer in the principle of soul competency.
Comment by Big Daddy Weave — May 6, 2008 @ 3;07 pm
Big Daddy,
It’s true that some of these children look awful young, especially the little girl who had the “Divine experience,” but the Pastor and the parents are the ones who have to make this call. We really dont know how much they examined this girl and the parents.
I have to admit that that child was a little too young….although, I’ve heard others give testimony to being saved at 5 or 6 yrs.
David
Comment by volfan007 — May 6, 2008 @ 3;23 pm
Dr. Hunt is officially in…see SBC Today/b>
Sola Gratia!
Comment by Scott A Gordon — May 6, 2008 @ 3;50 pm
Man…blew that link! Try again…
Dr. Johnny Hunt to be Nominated for SBC President
Comment by Scott A Gordon — May 6, 2008 @ 3;51 pm
Tim,
Just FYI…
It is Bill Wagner, not Waggoner.
Comment by David Rogers — May 6, 2008 @ 5;34 pm
Tim,
What is going on that there will be so many up for nomination? Email me.
Serving Him,
Mike
Comment by Mike Madaris — May 6, 2008 @ 5;49 pm
Brother Tim,
That’s very humorous to me that BDW would first of all criticize FBCW and not comment about the point of your post. Not only that, I didn’t realize God had left him in charge of judging what age a child can receive Christ. I was saved at age 4 and I remember it like it was yesterday. I couldn’t tell you anything about predispensation or whether I was premill or post or anything about progressive revelation. All I know is my momma told me about Jesus since I was born and I asked Him to come into my heart and forgive me for all the bad stuff I had done. Anyone who knows Preacher Johnny knows he is the real deal and he wouldn’t baptize someone if they didn’t know Jesus. I for one am thrilled he is running–nothing against Frank Cox, but Johnny Hunt will be a wonderful president. He is a scholar, an incredible preacher, a great leader and a pastor to pastors. God bless Him!
Comment by preacherman — May 6, 2008 @ 9;30 pm
I’m glad you’re humored.
What was Tim’s point again? That this year’s annual meeting will be “interesting” or his memory of the days when only one “conservative” was nominated?
I guess we moderate Baptists share something in common with our Reformed brothers whose eyebrows also lift up when they see little boys and girls still playing with their Tickle-Me-Elmo are baptized.
I am thankful that your memory goes back to age 4. But memory and competence are two entirely separate, unrelated subjects.
But I do wonder, when some of these little children grow up and realize that they weren’t sure of what they were doing when they were baptized and thus request baptism again - will those little children turned adults be counted AGAIN in your declining baptism statistics that folks have made so much noise about lately?
Comment by Big Daddy Weave — May 6, 2008 @ 10;05 pm
are = get following Mr. Elmo.
Comment by Big Daddy Weave — May 6, 2008 @ 10;06 pm
Does Dr Johnny Hunt have a FIRE TRUCK BAPTISTERY in his church
Comment by irene — May 7, 2008 @ 12;08 am
To All,
I am preaching in a revival meeting in a neighboring city about 1 hour and 15 minutes away. Sorry that I have not been able to respond right away. The meeting is going fine. For my CBF Brothers and Sisters, I am holding a series of Spiritual Renewal meetings, and ohhh (sound of lips being pursed and smacked) it is grrrhand.
Brother Jamie,
I enter only when you allow me to place your name before the NCBSC for Pres.
Brother BDW,
Please notice that your comments have brought Volfan out of lower case lettering to correct grammar and punctuation.
More to you from me will follow.
Brother Scott,
Thanks for the link.
Brother David,
Thanks for the correction.
Brother Mike,
You don’t know? It is the back-room smoke-filled political machine at work here. We do not allow anyone with half-a-mind about them to enter the race. All of these entering the race are just mindless minions of Dr. Patterson. You did not know that? :0 I will call you later today.
Brother Preacherman,
You make a great point. I wonder if you would be in that group of Calvinist that Brother BDW refers to?
Sister Irene,
Can you point me to one of our leading churches that regularly uses a fire-truck baptistry?
Brother BDW,
I have saved the best for last.
Oh, how I do love crossing plow shares with you.
I do not want to get into the Pastor’s responsibility as to the baptismal candidate because I know Brother Johnny Hunt personally and I know he has guidelines that are to be followed for anyone to be baptized. Your assertion about a Dad baptizing his daughter is clearly one that is mis-guided or ill-informed. At the church I pastor, like other pastors, I present the gospel and when the child responds leave the decision for baptism to the parents. If the child is 14 years of age and desire to be baptized, but the parents do not desire such a thing, I do not baptize them. Why? It is on the parents shoulders as to the proper decision. The child is abiding under the authority of his/her parents. I will direct the parents into the Scripture and I will express to them the truth of what God’s Word says, but ultimately it rests on the parents.
As to the competency of the child. I have a cousin that has muscular dystrophy. He is completely confined to a wheel chair and cannot even feed himself. He wears depends and has to have 24/7 skilled care that his mother provides. He is now 31 years of age. When he was 8 years old he began to jump around in his chair during an invitation and his mother realized that he wanted to be pushed to the front of the church. There, he surrendered his life to Jesus Christ. The baptismal service was glorious. While he has most definitely been sheltered from life because of his need for skilled care, he has certainly grown in his faith. His parents wanted him baptized and the pastor did not feel good about it. Only his mother can clearly communicate with him and she told them he wanted to be baptized. The pastor wisely conceded to the parents wishes and baptized the young man.
I tell that story to ask this question. Is this not what we as pastors are supposed to do. Especially when it concerns something that has nothing to do with whether the person is saved or not? Your concern about whether the child will be counted again if they get older and realize that they weren’t sure of what they were doing when they were baptized, on the surface seems like a legitimate concern. However, what does that mean? We do not baptize people because they “did not realize what they were doing”. We baptize people as a result of salvation. If you guys in the CBF are baptizing people because they ‘did not realize what they were doing’, then you leave no choice but to question your baptismal numbers, and the motives behind them. Which, BTW, is not something I believe should be done by anyone.
Blessings,
Tim
Comment by Tim Rogers — May 7, 2008 @ 7;18 am
Tim:
I think it has been taken out now, but there was news report several years ago that Ronnie Floyd’s church in Arkansas did indeed have a fire truck baptistry in which the lights and sirens went off when the tyke was brought up out of the watery grave.
Are you still committed to the candidacy of Frank Cox as opposed to Johnny Hunt? Why not Brother Johnny over Brother Frank?
May the Lord bless the services you’re preaching in Revival.
Comment by Heath Lloyd — May 7, 2008 @ 10;25 am
Brother Heath,
The statement you have made about the fire truck baptistery being removed is the issue I was trying to point to with Sister Irene. As I understand it, Dr. Floyd was presented with this issue and he understood the implication and removed the Baptistery. We must give him credit for his stand.
Second, the reason that I am supporting Brother Frank Cox over Brother Johnny, is that I said I would support Brother Frank. It is called giving one’s word. I love Brother Johnny. He is a native North Carolinian and I would love to be able to support him. However if you will read my history on this blog you will notice that I have already said that I would support Brother Frank.
I have given my word.
Blessings,
Tim
Comment by Tim Rogers — May 7, 2008 @ 11;07 am
Thank you Tim. And thank you for sticking by your word. In this day and age that is rare.
I was hoping to go and give my support to Dr Al Mohler, but that changed. Now I am not sure. I wrestle. I pray.
I am not sure exactly where our Convention is going to go; and we need a leader, a God-raised-up leader.
Where’s an Adrian Rogers?
Comment by heath lloyd — May 7, 2008 @ 11;20 am
Tim,
I was reading the article on and I wondered if it is just plain normal for SBC churches to nominate a pastor for office when half of his church doesn’t show up on Sundays? Didn’t I read 16,000 on the rolls and 6,000 average attendance? Can we find anyone anywhere to nominate who has 50 people more in attendance than on the roll?
Sorry if it sounds harsh… I couldn’t figure out how to ask it any other way…I’ll take suggestions for better language if anyone has one.
Comment by Trip Rodgers — May 7, 2008 @ 11;47 am
“If the child is 14 years of age and desire to be baptized, but the parents do not desire such a thing, I do not baptize them. Why? It is on the parents shoulders as to the proper decision.”
Is this in the Bible somewhere? Thou Shalt Not Baptize Competent Teenagers Without Parents Verbal Consent? That’s the most unBaptist statement I think I’ve heard in a long time….
Comment by Big Daddy Weave — May 7, 2008 @ 12;03 pm
Where do you draw the line, Tim? If the kid is 2 or 3 and the parents want baptism, do you consent? Is there any difference between immersing a 3 year old and a Catholic or Anglican sprinklin a 9 month old?
Comment by Big Daddy Weave — May 7, 2008 @ 12;06 pm
Can we find anyone anywhere to nominate who has 50 people more in attendance than on the roll?
Trip. Can you name one church that fits that criteria.
BDW, how old do people have to be in your church before they are baptized. Please give us some guidelines.
Comment by jamie steele — May 7, 2008 @ 12;51 pm
Jamie,
Great question…Saddleback fit it the last time I saw their numbers…wouldn’t it be a great thing to aspire too?
Comment by Trip Rodgers — May 7, 2008 @ 1;54 pm
Brother BDW,
How many churches have you been pastor in? How many times have you had an irate parent, that was probably an unbeliever, come to you with a Bible open and telling you that you did not believe the Scripture where it says; Children honor your Father and Mother? I will draw the line where the Bible draws the line. My job is to share the scripture with the parents. Do not get me wrong. If a parent comes to me with a two-year old and tells me that child had a divine encounter with Jesus, I will speak with the child. If the child answers some questions that I believe to be competent concerning salvation, I will caution the parent. I will tell the parent I believe the child needs to wait. However, if that child has given me answers that I believe reveal he/she is competent in understanding salvation, and that parent desires for that child to be baptized, under the water he/she goes. If on the other hand a person under 18 year-old accepts Christ and desires to be baptized, I go to the parents if they are not attending church. If that parent says they do not want that child baptized, my hands are tied. To baptize that child would be to go against that parents wishes and I will stand before God telling him that I obeyed His word concerning the authority of parents.
As for the Catholic and Anglican, how many of them ask the child about their decision to follow the Lord? Besides, isn’t that what this is all about?
Brother Trip,
Here are their numbers according to their 2007 ACP.
Total Members = 22024
Primary Worship Service Attendance = 16225
Total Sunday School = 26402
Average Sunday School = 19812
Discipleship Participation = 36914
Total Missions Expenditures = $2,690,736
Cooperative Program = $100,000
Annie Armstrong = $0
Lottie Moon = $0
Total Baptisms = 2189
You should see the ACP on CP from 2005.
Blessings,
Tim
Comment by Tim Rogers — May 7, 2008 @ 2;17 pm
Jamie,
I’ve never attended nor have I been a member of a SBC or CBF church that baptizes pre-schoolers. There’s a good reason why the pastors of those churches didn’t baptize kids still wearing their Huggies. Soul competency.
Tim,
How many churches have I pastored? Zippo. How many churches do I plan to pastor? Zippo. Do I need to pastor a church to weigh in on this issue? Absolute Not. I have watched and learned from my father who has pastored many many more Southern Baptist churches than you and probably more than 95% of all Southern Baptist pastors. That has to count for something.
Comment by Big Daddy Weave — May 7, 2008 @ 2;56 pm
BDW,
Sounds like your father had a difficult time staying in one church for very long, if what you said is true: “I have watched and learned from my father who has pastored many many SB churches than you and probably more than 95% of all SB pastors.” Just a thought from on PK to another.
Comment by Mike Madaris — May 7, 2008 @ 4;40 pm
BDW,
Maybe you could give us a lecture on baptism or get some notes from your dad dude.
Help me out because i have only pastored one church. A guy of your experience could really help me out. You are 24 right.
Comment by jamie steele — May 7, 2008 @ 4;41 pm
Tim,
“Total Members = 22024
Primary Worship Service Attendance = 16225
Total Sunday School = 26402
Average Sunday School = 19812
Discipleship Participation = 36914″
Thanks for the current info. That’s what I’m talking about…36,000 being discipled on a roll of 22,000. Now, numbers aren’t the main thing, but do you see a ratio of members to people being discipled. I don’t aspire to be Saddleback, but I do wish we had a ratio like this held up as an example.
Comment by Trip Rodgers — May 7, 2008 @ 4;54 pm
Jamie,
No, actually I’m 25 and two semesters away from working on my dissertation.
I don’t need notes on baptism from my dad - a Baptist historian. I hold my own. I’m rather sure that everyone who knows me personally and even those out in the blogosphere would concur.
But having an ordained Baptist minister/academic for a father doesn’t hurt.
Not to sound like an elitist - I’m not - but sometimes its necessary to respond in kind to such snooty quips.
Mike,
Though Tim knows what my dad does for a living, I should have elaborated further for others. Actually being a pastor is not what pays the bills. My dad is a Religion professor at Baylor. Before Baylor, he was the Chair of the Religion Department at Brewton-Parker College (George Baptist Convention). During his days as a seminary student at SBTS, my dad pastored a couple of churches in the Kentucky/Indiana area. One was an American Baptist congregation. He’s now been a full-time church history professor for 20 years. But on Wednesday nights and Sundays, he’s served as interim pastor of at least 20 Baptist churches. All but maybe 3 were SBC. Most of the interims last around a year long. Although, the pastor search committees of some smaller churches seem to get a bit lazy whenever they find a good interim that meets most of their needs.
Comment by Big Daddy Weave — May 7, 2008 @ 5;14 pm
Guys, Isn’t your ‘Biblical Manhood’ and ‘role’ being threatened with these ‘quilt piece’ avatars? It should be a piece of farm equipment. I think you should fix this before Russell Moore finds out. :o)
Comment by Lin — May 7, 2008 @ 8;56 pm
Tim,
Really….what’s up with the quilting? Are you a sissy? Are you a secret quilter? If so, come out of the closet. Tell us you not only like pink, but you are a quilter. Lin has asked a very pertinent question here, and we all want to hear the answer. Especially from a man who wears pink shirts and pink, pimp suits.
David
Comment by volfan007 — May 7, 2008 @ 9;28 pm
Look! I post a comment and what comes up????? A pink, sissy quilt piece!!!
C’mon, Tim…..what’s going on?
David
Comment by volfan007 — May 7, 2008 @ 9;29 pm
Brother Tim,
Just so you know, no I am not in the Calvinist camp at all. By the way, I thought Johnny Hunt boiled down election pretty well at SEBTS during a chapel sermon.
“Whosoever will will and whosoever won’t won’t.”
BDW,
I’m not sure I understand what you mean by memory and competence are two different subjects. Are you saying I wasn’t truly saved at age 4? Last time I read the book of Acts it said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.” I didn’t read anything about age, competence, memory or anything else. Jesus called, I came and received Him. I’m sort of confused. Sorry, I’m just a redneck, evangelistic preacher, not a scholar like you.
Comment by preacherman — May 7, 2008 @ 9;45 pm
BDW,
No disrespect to you dad but serving as an interim pastor and serving as a pastor are two totally different things. An interim pastor has the luxury of preaching and going home not worrying about alot of the junk we full time pastors have to deal with every day. Interim pastors have an important role, no doubt, but please don’t lump the 95% of us pastors in together with an interim pastor. You have no idea what it takes to be in the trenches day after day.
Comment by preacherman — May 7, 2008 @ 9;49 pm
AMen preacherman.
Comment by jamie steele — May 7, 2008 @ 9;57 pm
Preacherman,
Some interim preachers show up for Sunday School and leave after the 11am and don’t grace the halls of the church until the next week. Other interims, especially those who serve small churches, put in the same number of hours and deal with the same amount of “junk” that bivocational pastors deal with on a regular basis. My dad puts in the hours because he feels he’s called to do more than just preach and teach. Perhaps your perception of what all interims do is a tad flawed.
And what’s to clarify about my statement that memory and competence are two separate subjects? Just because a person can remember an event from their early childhood years has nothing to do with whether a child is “competent” to freely make a decision on his or her own without being coerced. In order to truly “believe” - doesn’t that mean a person has to “understand” what they are actually “believing.” That demands that the soul is competent. If you throw competency out the window then it really isn’t “Believer’s Baptism” now is it?
And I said absolutely nothing about your salvation.
And I didn’t say you were a redneck.
Those are your words.
Comment by Big Daddy Weave — May 8, 2008 @ 12;05 am
BDW,
You said: In order to truly “believe” - doesn’t that mean a person has to “understand” what they are actually “believing.”
Define “understand” and how much do we have to understand to be saved.
Jesus mentioned childlike faith. How much understanding does one have to have.
How much do you think the thief on the cross “understood”.
Back to the original post..
I am voting for Johnny Hunt. Great man, great church, great preacher.
Comment by jamie steele — May 8, 2008 @ 6;38 am
Brother Trip,
I am not sure if those Discipleship numbers are accurate.
The 2006 DT lists 4798, the 2005 shows 15046, the 2004 shows 9126, the 2002 shows, 2106.
I am wondering if they are not trying to define Discipleship within their own organization. Like other churches we struggle whether to list those attending FAITH under Discipleship Training. Is Discipleship Training something done for lost people or saved people? I wonder if these are the small groups they have during the year.
Brother BDW,
I am not going to apologize for these rednecks coming after you.
You did leave yourself exposed to their questions and you did question the salvation of one who said he got saved at 4. Really, you do need to re-examine your statement. While you did not call Preacherman a redneck, I know him and I can assure you that he is a redneck. 
Did you notice Brother Jamie Steele “Amen” Preacherman’s statement? That is because Brother Jamie is a redneck also. Oh, Mike is too. And Volfan? He is the Larry-the-Cable Guy of the bunch. 
Seriously, I know that your Dad has much more experience than I. However, I also know that your Dad, if you will ask him about the subject, will tell you that a Pastor is in a very precarious situation when a Parent either wants or does not want their child Baptized. As I explained earlier, we are Pastors, not their parents. If a child expresses their competence in answers to questions about salvation, it leaves me with doubt if they are 3 or 4. But, if a parent has no doubt and is an active member of the congregation, I have no choice but concede my doubt to the parent’s desire. They know that child better than I. Besides, I have been in the ministry long enough to tell you that a parents desire will trump a Pastor’s direction every time.
Sister Lin,
Glad to see my quilt pieces brings out the humor in you. However, Russell Moore has been in contact with me and suggested I go to this to help keep the disagreements more amenable.
Brother Volfan,
See what I told Sister Lin,
Seriously, I do not know what is going on with the quilt. It just started and I have not changed any thing. It must be some glitch in the software.
If someone out there can tell me what I need to do in order to correct this, I will be glad. But, until then we all need to get used to seeing pretty patterns.
Brother Jamie,
You ask Brother BDW some great questions. I do hope he returns to answer them.
Brother Mike,
Brother BDW does have a find father. I disagree with much of his theology, but he is a fine man. I have never met him but from others that know him, I understand he is a good man. I think Brother BDW has explained in an honorable way the reason for the different pastorates.
Blessings,
Tim
Comment by Tim Rogers — May 8, 2008 @ 8;33 am
Tim,
Lin and I are still waiting on accurate, believable answers to the quilt thing. Are you trying to cover up? (pun intended)
Also, I have to give a big amen along with Jamie about Preacherman’s response to Big Daddy. The difference in being an Interim Pastor and being a Pastor is night and day. I do want to affirm all the good Interim Pastor’s out there. Their ministry is very needed and valuable. But, you just cant compare it to being a Pastor, and especially a full time Pastor who’s very livelihood depends on the financial backing of his members….who puts his neck and his families necks on the line with every sermon and every decision that he makes.
David
Comment by volfan007 — May 8, 2008 @ 9;40 am
BDW,
You still didn’t clarify, I’ll assume you don’t know. You have stated that a child as young as I was cannot be competent enough to be truly saved. If I was saved at age 4 and you don’t believe I was competent enough to be, then in essence you are saying I was too young. It really doesn’t matter, I know in my heart what I did was genuine. I don’t remember you calling me a redneck. I gladly and proudly called myself that. That’s wonderful that your father spends more time than the average interim with the people. My point was if your dad tires of the church there, he still is able to support himself and family by teaching at Baylor. For the rest of us, we don’t have that luxury. When we decide (or they decide) it’s time for us to go, often we have nothing to go to nada, zilch. It doesn’t always work out nice and neat that we resign at one church and go right to another without missing a beat (or a check)! And believe me, your dad may deal with some of the junk as an interim, but rest assured he doesn’t have deacons calling you Satan and cursing you out on the phone and accusing you of God knows what next. That’s my point on that issue which wasn’t even the original issue. I guess my question to you is, is my salvation experience in your opinion valid?
Comment by PREACHERMAN — May 8, 2008 @ 11;18 am
I’m late on this one, but saw Heath’s lament for the missing Adrian Rogers. Danny Akin mentioned in an interview I did with him yesterday that one reason the SBC is so “balkanized” right now is that there is no consensus national leader…like Adrian Rogers. You can read full story here. http://www.biblicalrecorder.org/content/news/2008/05_08_2008/ne08052008danny.shtml
Comment by Norman — May 8, 2008 @ 3;30 pm
Amen preacherman amen!!
Comment by jamie steele — May 8, 2008 @ 4;30 pm
Brother Norman,
Thanks for that link. It is an interesting read.
Blessings,
Tim
Comment by Tim Rogers — May 8, 2008 @ 7;05 pm
“Seriously, I do not know what is going on with the quilt. It just started and I have not changed any thing. It must be some glitch in the software.”
I have it on good authority it was selective sabotage by a monsterous regiment of angry militant feminists.
Comment by Lin — May 10, 2008 @ 4;17 pm
Bro. Tim,
Looks like you need to write another post and add your buddy Brother Les to the increasingly crowded mix for SBC pres. Shoot, man me and you will run next year!
Comment by PREACHERMAN — May 13, 2008 @ 1;16 pm